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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>David, I appreciate the nice things you said about SEDNTERP 1,
but people need to remember that it took quite a long time to get the bugs out
of that version (I think a decade or more!). The calculations are the easy part,
it is the user interface that creates the problems, and that is 100% new in
version 2. So the community needs to have some patience about version
2.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Remember too that SEDNTERP 1 got to where it was only because
the community took the time to report and properly document the bugs
so they could be tracked down and corrected. It also only to got to
where it was due to the major contributions of David Hayes and Tom
Laue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Best to all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=357525421-09082013><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>John</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> rasmb-bounces@list.rasmb.org
[mailto:rasmb-bounces@list.rasmb.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>David
Hayes<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 09, 2013 2:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
rasmb@rasmb.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RASMB] s20w
calculation<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">
<DIV><SPAN>Hi John,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I
sent some off list response with extra information and opinion I am not sure
about and don't want to be on list.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>I
am also waiting for Walter or Peter Sherwood to answer about SEDANAL questions,
but I suspect that you are thinking SEDANAL is doing s20w corrections that it
really is not, but I don't know if that is the problem.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>Everyone
should know that the Web SEDNTERP and the desktop beta share the exact same
calculation source code, so if they are the same version, they better agree on
everything, feature for feature, bug for bug.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>But
also, basically trust the by hand calculations as was posted previously, ask the
programmers which numbers are s20w and which are not, and thank you for posting
the problems so the developers of SEDNTERP can work out the bugs. Due to
John Philo's incredible and meticulous work, SEDNTERP 1.2 was incredibly
reliable and calculated things to 5 decimal places reliably and exactly the same
as the published equations. the new version of SEDNTERP will take a lot of
sweat to get to that level of excellence.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><SPAN>David
Hayes</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR SIZE=1>
<FONT size=2 face=Arial><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> John
Sumida <jpsumida@u.washington.edu><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> drdavidbhayes@yahoo.com <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> rasmb@rasmb.org <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, August 9, 2013 1:44
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [RASMB] s20w
calculation<BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Hi
David,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Thanks for
taking the time to respond. I’m attempting to respond to your post. Apologies if
I’m committing some type of etiquette violation in responding to the group, but
as you requested some clarification as to my process I thought to respond
publicly.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">To answer your
questions.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I’ve been trying
to understand why this particular polymer material produces a large s20w value
when another material with different surface charge properties produces an s20w
of 7.9s and sediments very differently.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">So the back
calculation, going from s20w to s*, was me playing with the data to see if I
could go from the 17.3 s20w back to s* which I would have hoped – as you point
out – would not have been much different from 17.3s.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">My initial
calculation using the s20w correction equation (equation 19) was
comforting in that the calculated s* was 16.4s. I used SEDFIT to perform
the same calculation just to check that all was in order – and as I stated
SEDFIT returned the 16.4s value as had the calculation and the analysis in
SEDANAL. Note that vbar and solvent parameters had been entered in into
the experiment file and gOfs files had been generated by running DCDT. So
I believe the s values returned in SEDNAL are s20w values.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The problem
arose when I used the Experiment page in SEDNTERP (version 20120828 BETA). Using
the calculated value of s*, SEDNTERP did not return the same value for s20w that
SEDANAL output. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I also attempted
the same operation using the web version of SEDNTERP which resulted in the same
result, namely calculating an s20w of 27.8s when the experimentally observed
s20w was17.3s.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I had not
thought to turn off the s20w calculation (in order to do so do I just remove
vbar from the experiment info?) and attempt to fit for s*. Will try that
next.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Best
regards,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">John Sumida,
Ph.D.</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=yiv1626916188MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">University of
Washington</SPAN></DIV>
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